for their generous contribution of
the following:
An Online Chat With
Karla Turner
(During the chat Karla 's nickname is:
"ThunderK")
4/5/95 6:17:56 PM Opening "KT Class 2 Log
4.5.95" for recording.
ThunderK : Hello, Michael and Jim.
ISCNIMikeL : Greetings, Karla!! You found the place, I see. Twenty,
with five auditors, and yes, I sent out two reminders in fact. Ah,
Karla, you have 20 signups, pretty good! And we expect a few more to
sign up this week.
ThunderK : Michael, will you be doing an intro tonight? ga
ThunderK : Welcome, everyone...
ISCNIMikeL : Karla, I can if you wish. I actually planned to sit
quietly (if possible) and just observe. What would you like? ga
ThunderK : All right with me! Have you read the quotation in the
folder? ga
ISCNIMikeL : I do think we can wait another minute or two. Thanks to
everyone for arriving on time. ga
NEW SOL : MIkel - Have you ever been able to sit quietly, :))
ISCNIMikeL : Linda, not very well. But when I'm real tired it's
easier. :-)
NEW SOL : Glad you're here. I'll be right back!
ThunderK : I wish you could all attend the Ozark UFO conference, by
the way...
ISCNIMikeL : Karla, maybe you should restate the quote, if it's not
too long. ga
ThunderK : Michael, the quote is a full page, so I don't think it's
worth taking that much time but of course I can relay the gist of it,
at the beginning, and it will stay in the folder, okay? ga
ISCNIMikeL : OK. ga
ThunderK : Okay, let's go ahead with the present crew. First, welcome
to you all, and thanks for your interest in what I feel is an
extremely provocative idea, the theory that our species is witnessing
a substantial change of some sort. I posted a lengthy quote from John
White's book, "The Meeting of Science and Spirit," concerning some
thoughts about this from several recognized 'enlightened' humans in
the recent past. Is there anyone here who hasn't had a chance to read
that yet? ga
ThunderK : Can I take that to mean that you've all read the folder,
then?
NEW SOL : I just read it quickly.
ThunderK : Anyone else? ga
Phikent : illumination, right?
BMosley288 : Have read it.
ThunderK : Right! By the way, for those of you who are new to the
online class session format we employ certain conventions to make the
conversation flow more smoothly. When you wish to make a comment or
ask a question,
you can type an '!' for comment and a '?' for a question. Then please
give me a chance to call on you I'll do my best to keep requests in
order. The second convention is to add a 'ga' (for go ahead) when
you're finished with your comments. If you must send your message
before you've completed it, add three dots...and we'll know you have
more to say. OK, any questions about this procedure? ga
Many of you are familiar to me from my first course here, and it's
nice to see you again. Before we launch into a discussion of White's
quote, I should tell you about the scope of this course and give you
a quick outline for the remaining sessions. As the course prospectus
noted, this began with two questions specific to the abduction
phenomenon, namely,
(1) Why are abductees typically unaware of ongoing experiences until
some later point in their lives when the
repressed memories are awakened?
(2) If abduction activity has been a long-term situation on earth,
why is it that our generation and society seems to be the first one
to wake up, in massive numbers comparatively to activities that have
been occurring for ages? Any questions about this starting point?
ga
Dee777 : !
ThunderK : Yes, Dee, ga
Dee777 : Some abductions seem to be 'out of body experiences' or what
seem to be dreams, and people just aren't
aware that these can be 'REAL' experiences. ga
ThunderK : Exactly! Until, that is, they go through a particular
experience and suddenly many more memories surface. This is the
pattern reported by any number of researchers into abduction
accounts, and I find it to be generally true. Yes, Red, ga.
Redshift9 : What is the evidence that abductions have been a "long
term" situation? ga
ThunderK : Good question. The evidence rests upon interpretations of
old accounts myths, legends, and religious writings, mainly as well
as interpretations of certain archaeological findings. Such
authorities as Vallee and Sitchin, for instance, have discussed this
possibility. ga
ISCNIMikeL : !
ThunderK : Back to you, Dee, in my last course I discussed some
reasons for the hidden memories from abductions, so I won't get back
into that point for now. Yes, Michael, ga
ISCNIMikeL : It may be we are not the "first generation" as you say
in the sense that many ancient cultures took "contact with the gods"
for granted at some level. We may be in a recurrent pattern that
seems very out of sync with our "scientific" paradigm, that pattern
being a time of "mythic breakthrough" that deconstructs and
reconstructs our belief systems. ga
ThunderK : Yes, this may indeed be our situation yet the fact that we
can still seriously discuss a number of possible situations seems to
indicate that we haven't generally recognized 'the' situation yet, I
would think. There may indeed have been ancient contacts with the
entities we know today from abduction accounts. It may also be the
case that in
both the ancient and the current contacts, the entities have not/were
not 'honest' with the humans who knew them? ga
NEW SOL : ?
ThunderK : Yes, Linda, ga
NEW SOL : Why do you say that?
ThunderK : Because at least in current reports, there is strong
evidence of illusions and deceptions and verifiably false and
unverifiable information coming from the abductors and if they are
the same group as the ancients 'gods'
then the possibility must remain for the older group, too. Yes, Kent,
ga
Phikent : I'm notorious for asking about the white light experience.
I believe that the illuminating experience is more than
philosophical.There really is a white light that flares in the head.
It starts with a chilling in the spine which travels upward to become
a flare in the inner eye with added sensory effects such as the
ability to see through closed eyelids - even a synesthesia sight
sensation on other skin surfaces. Is there a neurological theory that
would account for such experience? GA
ThunderK : Let's get a neurologist in here, somebody!...
Phikent : macros ga
ThunderK : I recognize some of your description from accounts of
kundilini experiences, BTW, but for now, let's try to stay with the
spefics of this course, ok? We don't know if abductions are an
ancient practice, but it's part of the possible theories that impinge
upon the idea of our current transformative process. Bob, ga
BMosley288 : Rather than dishonesty could it just be not making an
explanation to an ant? ga
ThunderK : Yep, could be just that...
NEW SOL : That's what I think, too BOB.
ThunderK : but the amazing and bewildering variety of experiences
that are part of the abduction scenario simply defy logical
explanations many times and point to a much deeper involvement with
us humans than we have with even our typical lab animals. Yes,
Michael, ga
ISCNIMikeL : It's interesting that high cultures like the ancient
Greeks, who had a very developed sense of beauty, goodness and
justice, nonetheless spole of thier gods as being capricious,
jealous, violent of taking sides, of warring amongst themselves, and
also of coming down to have their way with the fair damsels of the
land, etc. One would think the Greeks could imagine nicer gods than
that, if it were a matter of imagination. ga
ThunderK : True! And those who try to explain this situation, without
resorting to an extraterrestrial one usually discuss it in terms of
the development of the human psyche and specifically of
consciousness. For those of you who are interested in this approach,
please check the reading list in the folder, BTW. Dee, ga
Dee777 : I think that in many cases, people thought they were seeing
angels perhaps, or demons or even ghosts, and in mideval times,
people were put in chains in dungeons screaming because they thought
they had lost their minds and even to this day, aliens and UFOs are a
taboo subject except perhaps one on one. Even in my own family, I
can't discuss the subject openly. ga.
ThunderK : Yes, you may be right about how we have misinterpreted or
misnamed this phenomenon in the past--and perhaps even today--Let me
quickly give you a brief outline for the classes coming up. In the
second session, we'll focus on the spiritual aspects of the
hypothesized transformation or mutation or evolutionary leap that
many of us
sense is occurring. In the third session, the focus will be upon the
biological aspects and the final class will discuss the
intellectual/mental aspects as well as putting the various discussion
threads together in some reasonable manner.
My starting theory or question concerns the leap of our species from
a bicameral mode to a tricameral mode of some sort, and I'd like to
define my use of these terms briefly. Although the term 'bicameral'
has been used specifically to refer to the human psyche before the
advent of consciousness as we know it today (as in Julian Jaynes'
book) it has also been used in other ways, pointing to a bifurcation
in the human psyche conscious and unconscious is one such
bicameralism; mind and brain is another; in Greek terms it was
expressed as 'psyche' and 'soma' and the difference
was much as we make between brain and mind today. My use of bicameral
refers to the conscious/subconscious duality and my reference to
'tricameralism' concerns the emergence of a new level of conscious
perception and action. Any questions on these terms, before we go to
the quote? Please don't be shy! ga?
BMosley288 : ?
ThunderK : Yes, Bob, ga
BMosley288 : Do you have a thought about what this third level is?
ga
ThunderK : I have thoughts, yes, and perhaps they're wishful to a
degree and I intend to share them as we progress, but of course I'm
more interested in the thoughts of our class participants! For those
of you who read the quote from White, do you have any beginning
comments about the ideas expressed by such great visionaries as
Richard Bucke, or Sri Aurobindo? Yes, Linda, ga
BMosley288 : ?
NEW SOL : Maybe you're about to get to this, but what kinds of new
reports are you getting from abductees which indicate a kind of a
more positive consciousness shift? It seems the White quote and many
other things I've read support this idea of a shift to a higher (or
tricameral) whatever new way that's my personal feeling too. But it
seems if aliens are involved in this, that abductees would have first
knowledge.ga
ThunderK : The knowledge that abductees bring away from their
encounters is very limited, first off, and comes from
alien-controlled events on top of that, so 'knowledge' is not always
what we get. There are a few things in the reports that could be
evidence of a shift, including of course the accounts from contactees
who generally report positive-seeming events and among abductees I
feel that reports of events in which the abductees were able to break
loose from control are indications of something changing with them as
well as events in which the abductees are able to 'see through'
illusionary scenarios as has happened on a number of occasions in the
past couple of years. Yes, Bob, ga
BMosley288 : I read Bucke's Cosmic Consciousness years ago, and I
thought his "Enlightenment" was strictly of a spirituual awakening
thing while abductions are physical, biological. ga
ThunderK : True. Within the body of possible explanations for the
abduction scenario, however are explanations that don't accept the
physical reality of the events which seem so real to abductees, and
also some explanation for even the real aliens say that they are
working on us in an effort to assist our spiritual transformation
into some new form of existence, so either way we have to consider
the question of a spiritual component in all this. Now, back once
more to the quote. How do you feel about White's remark that the
great visionaries after all the negative things our recent history
has produced, seem "like foolish dreamers" when they talk about the
imminent emergence of the "supermind" or "cosmic consciousness" just
around the corner for humanity? ga
ThunderK : Yes, Bob, ga
BMosley288 : I think all those bad things, wars, depressions, etc.,
make a need for dreamers more than ever. ga
ThunderK : You may be right, but that is a sad statement, isn't it?
go ahead, Michael.
ISCNIMikeL : If we are in a time of "mythic Breakthru" as I mentioned
earlier, then it is equally likely that "THe Way THings Are" becomes
more rigid, more self-defensive and in a real sense more "crazy" in
other words, a heightening of the opposites before the genuine
breakthru. ga
ThunderK : Well, we're certainly seeing a global polarization that is
frightening, I'd agree. Yes, your point about the descent into a
chaotic state, which typically precedes any reorganization, is a good
one. The 'status quo' is held onto even more tightly and extremely
when it is threatened. This brings up, BTW, a point for later
discussion about the need for a species to develop new coping
mechanisms during stressful times that threaten its continued
existence. Yes, Linda, ga
NEW SOL : Without "foolish dreamers" positive, forward, upwardly
consciousness raising growth would not be possible. And while
thinkers like White may be cutting edge, or perhaps even a bit too
early there are many more now who are being widely accepted. i.e
Celestine Prophecy, etc. it's like because of the chaos and lack of
belief on the "rigid" ways we've had, people are searching and
perhaps ready to make the consciousness leap because of the "bad"
stuff. ga
ISCNIMikeL : !
ThunderK : Yes, Michael, ga
ISCNIMikeL : This too is not a new thing... In the Bhagavad Gita
there's a line that says, in effect (spoken by God,
by the way) that "Whenever things get REALLY terrible, that's when I
make myself in the image of humankind and come forth again, to set
things right. ga
ThunderK : Excellent! And though he never made any claims to
divinity, Buckminster Fuller also said that while humanity has the
potential to go forward peacefully, its history shows that it must be
propelled by direst circumstances to go forward, kicking and
screaming the whole way. Lest I leave Mr. White hanging, let me now
finish the quotation for you. Then I'll have an assignment for the
time between sessions. The rest of White's quote is this: "Perhaps,
but only if evidence which supports and advances their view is
lacking. Is there nothing but darkness in this world--nothing but
blind selfish instincts, nothing but greed and aggression which seek
to reduce life to the lowest level of brutality, masked only by a
thin veneer of 'civilized' behavior? Is existence what novelist
Joseph Contrad described...as 'the horror, the horror'? I say there
is something else." So please add this to the quote in the folder and
before next week, I'd ask each of you to make a considered reply to
the quote and post it in the folder. There will also be a new set of
quotes for the basis of next class discussion. Our time is up for
tonight, but if there are any pressing comments thus far, let's
briefly listen to a few. If not, think about the evidence that you
can come up with that would indicate a shift in our perceptions and
reality that are apparent to you.
NEW SOL : Maybe us humans are starting to "get" it...:)
ThunderK : Maybe so! If so, why and how? And what does it mean for us
today? All good questions! Michael, thanks for joining us tonight.
You are always welcome back, you know.
ISCNIMikeL : Thank you , Karla, for an outstanding first session
tonight. ga
ThunderK : And Jim, thanks for doing the 'chat log' for the class.
See you all again next week and I'll be checking the log beginning on
Sunday night. Bye for now, and thanks to you all!
Violet4u : :{applause]
NEW SOL : Interesting topic Karla, thanks!
BMosley288 : Enjoyed the class. I look forward to next. Nite all.
ISCNIAcad : Thanks, Karla. See you next week!
Phikent : Bye thankyou
Wolflady : thanks karla
Dee777 : Have a wonderful conference Karla.
ThunderK : You're all very welcome! Hope you all can contribute some
great ideas next time!
Toneyterry : Thanks Karla - Good Night
ISCNIAcad : OK - I'll be signing off. See you all next week!
